in the most recent moments before we were quoting this program earlier today i had to evacuate a scene while i was filming for a documentary as israel struck areas which are densely populated the gaza strip is one of the most densely populated places on earth so everyone here is terrorized including the internationals and no one actually is safe in gaza tonight then are we seeing a repeat of what we saw four years ago. it's really up to hamas the the people of southern israel have been in bomb shelters where they have less than fifteen seconds warning more than a million israelis have spent the weekend in bomb shelters during two thousand and twelve we have more than nine hundred missiles launched it israel and israel has shown remarkable restraint but now what israel has done is to capitated the military command of hamas and attacked the missile storage spots and that's what they've done so far the next step is up to hamas unfortunately i'm told by the

i.d.f. in the last twenty four hours two hundred forty five missiles have been launched it israel so if they continue to do that i'm sure there will be additional attacks up to and including a ground assault if that's the only way for israel to defend itself ok norman where do you came in on this i mean another ground assault you've written a book about the last one. i don't think there will be a ground assault with i do think it's true that it's pretty similar in the build up to what happened in two thousand and eight two thousand and nine back then israel was worried about what it called the current capacity means its ability to terrorize people in the region after the defeat it suffered in two thousand and six by the party of god that has not been and now israel has been suffering one foreign relations debacle after another first there was mr netanyahu who smuggled the

iranian bomb into the u.n. and held up the bomb for everybody to see nobody took him seriously and the consensus seemed to be that who is a mania which he is and then there was the hezbollah drone missile which flew over and came quite close to dimona in israel then there was the visit by the head of state of qatar to. and then there was the anticipated visit by the prime minister of turkey to gaza namely mr. and also even their own puppet regime that they installed in the west bank namely the palestinian authority was getting too uppity and threatening to get some of them going they're going to the un ok ok that's good normally i covered a lot a lot of ground right there harry can you tell us what the consensus in gaza is a sense of dread that we're going to see the ground assault again it was quite

devastating how are people reacting you're seeing it yourself. i've spoken to dozens and hundreds of palestinians since this operation has been launched and all palestinians i've spoken to expect things to get greater than they already have been over these last forty eight hours people are expecting a ground incursion we're getting reports various reports about that saying that it may last several days we've had three reports now of the i.d.f. . forces very afterwards leafleting north parts of the gaza strip in arabic we've seen leaflets saying that we're going to invade the gaza strip so yes people are prepared for that but that is a psychological warfare tactic whether it's going to happen or not we remains to be seen but everyone is on high alert and the gaza strip is. that i place and it was we can go dand you just jump in there go ahead. i love how humanitarian gesture by the i.d.f.

is interpreted psychological warfare what they're telling people to do in these leaflets is to not be human shields in front of missile launching facilities nobody's mentioned so far that three israeli civilians were killed in syria. in southern israel by missiles that were launched on purpose at civilians all the israeli attacks our military target days are enormous very emotional because i think that's what israel on a woman who's being killed dozens of children have injured and then you know there's already starting to be more of this is what happens ok you know i mean you want to jump in go ahead. here but i would like to. talks about using human shields targeting civilians so how the current round begin there was a lull until november eighth november israel with its height technology israel killed the palestinian child then there was retaliatory. this is this is as

usual are good enough already there. wasn't all the fire down there was hundreds and hundreds of fires on fire on fire there and they're going to have to let me talk you're going to have to behave let me talk you got your time going and you're always going to retaliate by firing them. by firing on israeli soldiers so how did israel retaliate israel where it's high tech solution technology then fired on the soccer field and killed two more children then there was retaliation by the militant groups and what israel doing next well there was a funeral for the two children who they killed in the soccer field israel targeted the funeral of the two children fired on the tent now dad has to agree with me that it's not in the sense that sartre and you know it's not going to let me just

say this it's out of the facts here that's how it healed mystery the truth is that all this is really about stories high tech weapons so. the precision with which israel attacked the commander of hamas military commander and it's israel were indiscriminately attacking one of the leaders and really populated cities generally let me let me go back to here and gaza and let me go back to when you go back to gaza gentlemen harry the israeli home defense minister of the dictator said quote there is no precedent in history of destroying terror by air power alone it hasn't happened and won't happen because it is necessary to reformat gaza altogether reformat go out gaza what does that mean to you. well this means to me more psychopathic language coming from the state of israel and i mean that absolutely critically and coldly that is the kind of nature of the military operation that they're launching it's obvious by the name of the operation operation pillar of cloud is a biblical reference these are people that are employing psychopathic language to

justify psychopathic violence being inflicted on a largely defenses third world population here in gaza last thursday a thirteen year old boy was killed by israeli forces playing football that is one of the events that started this retaliation so that is the real context of what is going on here in gaza children are being killed i was in the hospital ninety minutes ago i remember i was fairly sure are only there are who was actually injured at a funeral parade that was targeted and i think you know it began precision weapons ok you get the head of hamas but then you kill children i mean how precise are they are they precisely killing children. if you look at the israeli record of using these precision weapons to compare it with when russia has been in combat with the united states has been in combat when britain has been in combat there are far fewer civilian deaths in these conflicts that israel has participated in than any

other western power that's absolutely true and the truth is when you start a war and there's no country on earth that would allow hundreds and hundreds of missiles to be fired to start tori without responding when you start a war there are consequences israel is not going to sit idly by while we're going to see that there is no country with an eye on the twelve would actually accept to mishear that only two hundred thirty eight and i think is exactly what is happening . and are being struck into gaza and i want to i mean it's not fair john i'm gentleman norman jump in both if you read the papers have been reading them the few days. what's happening in gaza has very little to do with what's happening with gaza itself mostly it's really come freely acknowledge it's not even a matter of trying to use double language they freely acknowledge where they say

that this has to do with an upcoming election that in fact mr jabari the person who they targeted mr jabari he was what harvard's israel's leading newspaper they described as quote an amusing in their words mr barber who was israel's enforcer in the gaza strip he was the one who kept things quiet for the past when they many arrived at first of all. the men are middle of the record for people like you in israel it has a tiny circulation but what they were saying in that article in haaretz is that he has was unwilling or unable to make other islamic organizations besides the islamic resistance. stop firing missiles at israel in fact a modern that really says ready willing for the latest series i never said i am going to marry i want to hear a gentlemen was as twenty seconds before we got all right gary go ahead. well i don't know what this time is islamic resistance surely one percent of the

population of palestinians do resist with an armed resistance which is justified and put in international law as a right for the palestinians to take up arms to expel occupiers and oppressors from their territory palestinian children being killed palestinian resistance groups fire fire rockets into israel or a sham and i jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on gaza stay with us. any.

resistance is not a politics but a culture. is could. on its own. cultures of resistance on pretty. wealthy british so. that's not on. the. market why not.

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welcome back to crossfire crime people about to mind you were talking about the ongoing assault on gaza. and. ok dan i'd like to go back to you in washington no country should accept being no country should accept being bombed i agree the palestinians probably shouldn't be bombed either but what about the right of resistance ok the siege that day is going on in gaza what right do the palestinians have to resist. well this is this is one of the great canards of this argument if the government defacto government and hamas would live peaceably after every israeli the entire gaza strip is judenrein there are no jews there except when norman visits the entire area is completely free of jews and israelis. have the option to live in peace but they've

chosen but they're living in what they call reason they're under siege this insist they're under siege your listeners and they're under siege well they're under siege because they refuse to live in peace they're importing weapons from iran what life is like in the southern areas of israel everyone every school every home has to have a safe room that's reinforced and they have a fifteen second warning to get to that room when a siren harry and william william went to. warnings in analysis. there is no need singing for palestinians in gaza there are no warning because they don't always have the right to high african slaves no out and challenging escaping from the own imprisoned homeland there are no bomb shelters in gaza no building i say they have is a very real chance all having who are living and what their neighbor isis ok to look well anyone who has an argument that has a peace agreement with. the very man that drove me to conduct this interview just

told me in the taxi that he would invite jewish people to stay in his home if they would stop bombing the gaza strip ok norman jump in. complaining about the situation in southern israel because for the last three years israel has been boasting alongside the americans about the magnificent iron dome. protection for israel and this iron dome was going to stop all the hamas rocket attacks so what actually happened. on the very first day of this current escalation the very first day three israelis were killed and that was three israelis equals the toll will number the total number of israeli civilians who were killed during operation cast the way the narration cast lead it was three civilians and combatants and so this one did iron dome which israel has

been bragging about it turns out to be a big joke if you accept the fact that everything israel said norman is clinking might caseys then i think you have a good starting point go ahead no i'm not making your case the case i'm making is that norman is a. single word liar joe native israel you shouldn't trust a single world the state of israel says. ok dan it was a good starting point and that's what that's what you're on record saying all the time the truth is that missile defense is something that can mitigate unprovoked aggression by these missiles but it can't stop the loss of life ok and i'm glad israel has iran and then has the united states supports question decadance that i said and people that use the sites that have interests and which they are resisting so i don't want unprovoked aggression that means right now there's

a logic in the sense is no substitute for living in peace with your neighbors all right norman go ahead the gentleman let's listen to norman go ahead i totally agree i totally agree with. the people on hamas and there is a siege there well there's also an occupation in the west bank you know certainly israel can deal with the postilion authority in the west after all they pay all the bills for the post in the palestinian authorities on their payroll so why haven't they been able to end the occupation of the west bank why do they continue to build settlements in the west bank while they reject all the power peace already here you know that what you call all the palestinian efforts in the west bank you call the west standing of where the palestinian authority with their own puppet regime they can't even reach a peaceful resolution of the conflict and. norman let's let.

let let me reply but it's easier to kill the west only and only the west bank was occupied by a puppet regime the truth is is that what you call the west bank is what is the land of our fathers it's the historical homeland of the jewish people and it's disputed territory it's far from belonging to the palestinian authority. not a disputed territory and is. palestinian territory i know well what you're mistaken about a very which is an online forum as this argument but to answer the question the fact that the palestinian authority is not. acting in a responsible way is an argument for my side not for yours israel has tried to live in peace with its neighbors it's bent over backwards to grant political rights to the pals already harry and they still do that the palestinians are under siege in

gaza feel that israel is trying to make peace with. israel is trying to kill them they've described the last few days as a massacre i will give you a rough direct quote israel is destroying our people and trying to destroy and it is our right and duty as palestinians to defend ourselves and five rights that is the message from gaza norman what is the end game what can the israelis feel that they haven't done already ourselves no they know i'm going to norman norman what can the israelis do now that they haven't done before and we will succeed from their point of view. i don't think i don't think there will be there may be a ground incursion but there won't be a ground invasion because both turkey and egypt will be on the phone to washington and particularly the turks will be very angry because they're now doing the us is dirty work in syria and it's going to look as if they care about the syrian people

but they don't care about the people of gaza which is not the message that prime minister wants transmitted and so he'll be on the phone with washington as will the new egyptian regime saying they couldn't tolerate a new operation cast lead and i think that pretty soon there's going to be a we negotiated cease fire in gaza i would want to earn my i would want to keep in mind however that israel is achieving some of its goals so as the head of state of qatar promised four hundred million dollars to gaza and things were actually looking economically economically things were actually improving in gaza and many people in the west bank were saying gaza looks better than our situation so it was time for israel to go in and mayhem wreak havoc destroy as much as they can in or once again to reduce gaza to

a desperate state ok dan reply yeah that's truly absurd the answer is it's up to the hamas decision to continue firing missiles at israel they cannot with impunity kill israeli civilians they're going to find regardless of how harry feels or how norman feels that israel's going to defend itself like every other country in the world will turkey would do it this way not egypt angeles's way israel the united states lately when we again we have the jewish people i'm not how i said by israel. without response. ok here and let me ask you the question is raised how well prepared are the gazans are in their carry. people are stockpiling on fuel and food police stations which are targeted by israel historically have been largely evacuated all education centers have been shut down definitely hospitals already announced

a crisis situation within an hour of the operation being launched the situation is grave and as i said the situation is quiet in gaza in respect of the streets people are in their homes the situation is hot in terms of the violence but it's quiet on the streets it is quite like a ghost town norman if you mentioned egypt i think that plays into this very interesting lee what if they open the border. was one of the reasons the operation cast lead to two thousand and eight. because egypt sealed the border and turned into a shooting gallery it turned into a killing you know shooting fish in a barrel which israel prefers israel's the most cowardly army on earth and saw always targets in gaza because it knows there is no resistance from there for example in two thousand and six when the war in lebanon on the run the israelis were terrified at the prospect of a ground invasion and they held off on the ground invasion because they knew that

the party of god those are serious fighters and the israelis would suffer serious casualties but the most cowardly army on earth won't do it spoken like a ruler or a just man army or unocal that is really true is is really is. there is true it is true. opens the border there will be a mass exodus from the civilian population which is exactly what egypt doesn't want and which is exactly why egypt will be on the telephone with washington saying no we cannot tolerate a massive influx from gaza we're going to have to tell israel to cool it state so i think will do so again what is a good outcome for israel in this because last time i went through this it became more and more isolated israel's going to become even more isolated now. all of the arab spring. i don't worry too much about israeli isolation i worry about them

doing the right thing to protect their people i think the good outcome is that everyone understands that when you kill a jew when you kill an israeli that there's a price to be paid and that's exactly what's happening now is where you are on the border being you know it's not the same warning as right they will be. well that's true i'm not an israeli i'm a jew i'm just happy that israel is defending jewish lives anywhere in the world and in this case in southern israel right israel and if i'm going to give a very good idea of having the last word quiet i'll give hiring the last word then are the gazans pretty prepared for the worst and i mean we've got twenty seconds of preparing for the wisest when israel kills and injures and maims innocent palestinian children as it has been doing over the last few days palestinian resistance groups will retaliate all right gentlemen we have time out of time i wish we had so much more many thanks to my guest today in gaza washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time

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